Oral History: Maeve Pessis — July 22, 2009

Summary:

Maeve Pessis was interviewed by Mary McCosker on July 22, 2009. Through her work with Friends of the Lafayette Library and the Lafayette Vision Committee. Maeve was one of the members of the community who knew the difference a new library could make. She describes the collaborative effort, involving a large and diverse group of people from all over Lafayette, which overcame many obstacles to create the new Library and Learning Center.

Oral History:

Mary McCosker: The date is July 22nd, 2009, and I am interviewing Maeve Pessis. Okay, so tell me about where you grew up.

Maeve Pessis: I grew up, started life in Illinois, and then my father, who was a teacher at the time had his own library, and that’s really what triggered my interest, but he was in World War II and part of the reserves, and got drafted into the Korean War, and he felt since he’d taken their money, he felt honor-bound to give up the teaching, and even though he really wasn’t that fond of the military, he went back in it. So I traveled, and was it about 13 different schools by the time I was 11, something like that? But I think in the long run it was a good experience. I got to see lots of the country, and you learn to adapt.

MM: Was there one library of your childhood that you can remember, something, a memory of a library?

MP: Mainly my father’s, but at home. I remember not being able to read yet, and looking, pouring books out, and wanting to read, and running my finger down the row. And asking my mother, you know, could she teach me my ABCs? This was so long ago. It seems hard to understand why we don’t have it on television and everybody learns it. And she was so busy with my sister who was ill, that she’d say, ABCDEFGH, and I never learned it, because I could get through F, maybe, and then the rest of them were just rattled too fast. So I was primed and ready for books.

MM: How important was reading to you while you were growing up?

MP: Very, very important. I was mainly reading. I remember getting a gift of a book. Well, my favorite books growing up were, I think, as a young child, Pooh Bear, and Rink-a-Tink and Oz. I loved the Oz books. And then I’d gotten a book, a gift book, which I think is important for children to get something special. It was Daniel Defoe’s book. And so there was a footprint of the sandy footprint of a man on the beach from Robinson Crusoe. And I used to caress the cover of a little sandy footprint and then read the book, which was difficult for somebody who was pretty young. But yeah, mainly English classics. By the time I was 11, I’d read all these tragic romances. I think when I hit puberty, my dad gave me a book and mom, a book on Katie and Her Camera. I don’t know why I remember that title. But it was such a stupid book. It had a happy ending. Everybody lived. The tragic heroines didn’t commit suicide or whatever, like Tess. Anyway, it was unusual, I think, reading list for my age group. Sometimes we pick what we have.

MM: Now, since you moved around a lot as a young person, is there sort of a community awareness you have of any one place or communities in general?

MP: Probably Illinois, but I think it brings you a real, you get a certain sense of tolerance for diversity, I think, when you move around. And you appreciate the differences. I think that’s what I learned to appreciate. Not the sameness, necessarily, but I have things I like. But I think there’s an appreciation for other people’s point of view, other people’s, I’m assuming that’s where it came from, because that’s something I’ve always been able to do: is to see all sides. That’s part of why I was a professor for those years. It’s useful to not bring your own point of view, force it onto the class, but just simply try to create a critical awareness of the possibilities of what might be and how this could be interpreted or that could be interpreted. And I think books allow you to do that. You know, you read another person’s point of view. Or you really, you can read all the knowledge of a particular field as structured by one person’s mind, taking you through it, instead of having to go, if you’re on the internet, you could travel around and get little bits and pieces all over. But when you read a book, it’s put together by one mind, and then you have the ability to go through the ages with the mind. You can travel back in time and read somebody from an earlier period. I find it wonderful. That’s what libraries do for me. It’s like a time travel.

MM: Give us a little of your educational background.

MP: I did, well, I spent a year at the University of Bordeaux, and I ended up getting a, I guess, my degree from Cal, and then a master’s degree there, and then I did all my coursework for the PhD there. I taught at two universities, Berkeley and then a large university, Alberta in Canada which is the provincial capital. And so my field was medieval French, which required, I didn’t think of it at the time. Well, it was more than that. It takes a university of about 25,000 students before you even have really enough courses for a medieval person. So I was self-limiting to big cities, which is not something I’m naturally drawn to, but it was interesting. Yeah, it was. Even interesting comparing the students at Cal to the students, more provincial students that were coming in from. Well, I was halfway through teaching Molière’s Don Juan, which is Don Juan, and I discovered people, half the class didn’t know who the original Don Juan was, so you’re really, and that’s part of being sensitive, I think, that I learned from all the travel, that you really got to be quick to pick up on the clues of who’s getting it, who’s not getting it, what’s understood, what’s not understood, and I think that makes you a better teacher, and maybe a better human being.

MM: So, you have been mostly a teacher, that’s your work experience. One sort or the other?

MP: Yes, it runs in our family, I think. One of my great aunts was the first person to get a PhD in Illinois, University of Illinois, yes, at the turn of the last century, and we have teachers going back, would, up until I think this recent financial crisis, I was hoping that our, I was wishing, regretting that our family hadn’t been hereditary financial investment bankers, but instead we’ve been struggling teachers, most, yes, that’s our, I’ve done many other things, though, I was also a high-tech recruiter, and, oh, I’ve just done a large variety of things, political.

MM: How did you end up in Lafayette?

MP: We were coming, I was starting law school in either UCLA; I’d been admitted to two law schools, UCLA Law School and Hastings, and for reasons that I had three children at the time, the youngest was two. I was insane to probably be doing this, first month of law school I dropped 10 pounds just carrying the law books to and from and trying to be a mom, coming home at night to do the kids. I really didn’t, I lasted a semester and put it on hold, and, and, but I had also discovered that although my mind, it was wonderful to learn the legal perspective, which is the facts are the facts, you don’t, there’s not a lot of room for, you’re not collating and synthesizing the knowledge the way you are at a university level when you’re teaching, you want people to bring in their knowledge from all parts. Law, almost like computers, there’s, you’re, you’re following precedent and, and it’s a much more, uh, confining, I think, well it’s just a different approach, uh, to the way a mind works, and so it was interesting to go through that, I think I understood it, uh, but at the same time I discovered that conflict really was not, uh, something I, I thrived on. I can do it, I can do it pretty well, I can fight battles, but I much prefer compromise and, and working with people to accomplish some goal, almost like the Library, what we’re doing here, too. So I’m much happier doing that, and, um, I forgot the original, what was in the U.S., about why we, why we settled here. And so, one professor, the Bucklins were going to, um, I think it was Sweden.

MM: Weylene and Pete?

MP: Yes, Weylene and Pete. And so we rented their home for the year. It was either this or Marin.

MM: Via Alta?

MP: Via Alta. We’re at one set of brakes, yes, I know, going up and down that hill, and, uh, we were there, I think nine or ten months. Oh, they were, they were dear. We looked after their cat and their fern, big fern plant, and, uh, so she was delighted. I’m a garden person, so I kept that fern. They had increased in size when she got back, and her cat was still alive, so she was, yeah. But, um, uh, we liked Lafayette for the children, and that’s one of the reasons I didn’t go to UCLA, because frankly I couldn’t afford the school, uh, private schools or whatever that would be required, uh, for the kids down there. And, uh, and this was such a nice, school-oriented, safe community that it, uh, it appealed to me.

MM: So, as a resident of Lafayette then, when did you first discover the Library?

MP: Immediately, because coming from Canada with nine months of Winter, they had a magnificent, a big oil deposit. There was no, uh, provincial tax in Alberta, and they had a magnificent library under the mall.

MM: Okay, makes sense.

MP—So, it did make sense. Uh, heavily, and, and I came here to our Library, 6,700 square feet for 24,000 people, and, uh, um, ended up, uh, really thinking we deserved better. One of the reasons I launched with Joan Merryman, the, uh, fund to build a new library, was because of that Canadian experience. I, I knew we deserved better, and I knew that people here would, would be willing to support better. So, when I went on the County Commission, I was on the first County Commission, representing the City of Lafayette. So, I was on that Committee for 13–Commission for 13 years, and it was mainly dealing with the facts, the operating costs, administrative costs, of the Library, and making sure that what the Friends donated in books every year, we didn’t get it subtracted from our, from what the County took. We only had one bad experience, and that was where we had money, we were putting a lot of money, then, into, I’m going to date myself, books on tape, which tape is now, well, you still have them, I know, but, but the County wouldn’t let us spend our money on the books on tape, because, no, they just didn’t, nobody else could afford it that year, and so what nobody else could afford meant we could, according to the, then County Administrator, he said that therefore he wasn’t going to let Lafayette buy books. I tried to point out to him that whatever was acquired by Lafayette would be available to the entire County, and that some of these books on tape were only put out one, one year, and if we lost that year, we would lose the ability to even get those books the next year, when, when everybody had money. So, it fell on deaf ears.

MM: Sure.

MP: That one year, we did not get funding, but other than that, our budget was well looked after, except for the regular cut cycles of problems. One thing I did notice, and this drew my attention, was if you started with a particular budget for the library, and this would be the County Library, the whole County Library system, and they would put in 𝑥 amount for books, 𝑥 amount for staff. Eventually, the staff costs rose, and since it was a finite budget, the book cost, or the, the cost of collections and materials would diminish down. Because that would increase as well. Well, they weren’t increasing the budget to accommodate the increase in staff costs, so it diminished the, exactly, and that, and then we were also in the budget because they had forgotten libraries, to include libraries, after Prop 13. We were in among, we were there with the firefighters and mosquito abatement. And we shared one pool of money, so when the firefighters went out for an increase, as rotten as it was of us, we had to go out and oppose it, because it would have diminished our library budget. So, I think we’re still in, in that same pool.

MM: Or worse off.

MP: And, and we’re, we’re probably worse off today, which is very sad.

MM: It is.

MP: But hopefully we’ll be able to actually increase our hours in the new library. We’re hoping.

MM: Um, do you personally use this library?

MP: I have, I did for the first probably 20 years, actively used it, but I have found that my own wonderful books are here, just wonderful books. Um, but I’ve run through a lot of the ones, and I’ve, I’ve got a tremendous library at home.

MM: Great.

MP: And I’m just now retiring. I mean, I’m hitting 65 next month. So, or September, actually. And I’ve, I’ve looked at this huge collection, and I have not read it. I’ve read a lot of it, but not all of it. And I’m thinking, do I have the lifespan left to actually read this? And so I’ve focused right now on, uh, on trying to read through my own collection.

MM: But how do you feel a library serves a community? Maybe particularly of ours, or..?

MP: Well, for me, it’s got such a personal attachment that I, and as I said, I try to look at it from many points of view, but, uh, I’ve noticed that, um, the way I use a library isn’t the way everybody uses a library. Um, some people come in, uh, you, you remember we, I’ve been a Past President of the Friends, and so I, every, after every meeting, I would leave and go check out books. But I found a lot of people used, um, uh, the financial section at one time. These are pre-computer. Now, of course, you’ve got the computer access. But people can still use the computers. And, uh, others used the travel. I know when I was on the Friends Board, we made sure we had, uh, travel information updated. Although now you can do that, uh, from computers and probably, maybe more easily. Uh, um, we’ve, um, I, I use it, as I said, just because, um, it’s fun to explore. I love the concept of putting, and they used to do this in Edmonton, to put the new collections out where people could see them when they walked in. Uh-huh. Or even books, not just seasonal books, but you could put out books on any topic. Uh, I love that, getting into a new topic where I can read through the row. I know. And, uh, and, uh, so just browsing the stacks. If you come in and look for something, uh, uh, even coffee table books. Right. I went through the African Arts section because that was a minor when I was, um, younger. I found somebody had cut out all the pictures of key, uh, pages. I was really heartbroken because we had to now re-buy them. I mean, they were, uh, damaged. They seriously damaged the books, but that’s another topic. Um, books on tape, I always used to come in and read those when I was cleaning closets. Or doing some disgusting job that I needed to take my mind off. Ironing, whatever, you know. There’s just a wonderful way to, uh, to use the library in all senses. Children’s programs came in when, um, I had young children. And when I was doing the programs for the library, we used to bring in, uh, programs at fashion shows. Uh, I remember wearing a Cal 1920s cheerleader outfit. And, uh, we used to have Christmas programs. I don’t think you called it that any longer. I would design the cards. The, uh, I love graphic art. Did a, uh, was editor-in-chief of our, uh, 400-page annual when I was a senior in high school. And, so, it was fun laying out those little cards that would go out. But we had, uh, different choirs coming in. So we’d bring in, um, Acalanes choral groups, or Happy Valley, or Lafayette Elementary School at Christmas and hire the Santa. And, uh, give out candy, it was just heartwarming. And then there’s story time with the children and the librarians. What we don’t have right now is we, uh, that, um, quite a while ago. It’s been a number of years now. Uh, we had adult books and adult book, uh, groups. So, affiliated with the library. And…

MM: With a book club?

MP: Like a book club. And the librarian would sometimes conduct those programs. Sometimes another person would guest. Another person would do it. It was really wonderful for our Senior population because we have Chateau Lafayette right nearby this library. And it’ll still be near the other library.

MM: And it’s something that should be revised because they are putting some more Senior housing in now.

MP: I know they are. And so that’s, that’s one of the things, if the poor Seniors can cross that street, um, that will, uh, would be wonderfully used. I’m, I’m a little sorry that we didn’t put more effort into, I think, finding what Senior needs especially existed. I almost think we needed a, a place for Seniors.

MM: Well, there are, there are rooms that can be used. And I, I think that, that, you know, this will, this is going to be a place with lots of chairs and couches. And somewhere you can come, you can buy coffee. So it could be, it could be, yes, yes, yes.

MP: I was kind of hoping as you probably, or maybe you don’t remember, but when we did our original poll of the city, um, uh, back when we did city offices. I actually was on the, uh, City committee to build City Offices in the 90s and got drawn into that committee because I, I got a phone call about what would I think of a 5,000 square foot library as part of the City Offices. So I get, yes, this was in the 90s. So I ran right. I didn’t be there. I forgot when it was, 1995 anyway, ran right down to the committee next meeting and told them we currently had a 6,700 square foot library. So a 5,000 would be ridiculous. And that we were really counting on a 12,000 to maybe 14,000 one if we could, if we could match or double it. That was our goal. And, uh, so in, when that poll came out, following that, the City Council, because our recommendation was to go pay for City Offices at that point, it was a low point in the real estate cycle. We could have gotten the buildings very cheaply and, uh, the City Council did not make a decision. They went to the public to ask and, uh, the poll showed that there was widespread support for a public library with a public meeting room attached to it for after-hours meetings. And, uh, very little support for paying for public, for, um, City Offices building.

MM: So we were good to go on the, when they were looking at the Kaiser Estate, right.

MP: And I think they were looking at a building across from, um, uh, Hungry Hunter that was on the other side of the, there was another one for sale over there. And so at that time we were good to go on the, uh, what became clear was that, and what I thought and what I regret is that I’d wanted an extra, out of, I thought we needed downtown meeting room so we’re not, uh, you know, way out in the Community Center. And, and one that we could access after hours. I think that’s what, we still need. So.

MM: What if the City Council’s going to meet in the Community Room of the Library?

MP: Uh, yes, they can afford to, but I don’t think average groups will be able to afford the fees that will be necessary. If it’s a local group, they may have some kind of a sliding fee scale, depending on if it’s a for-profit, if it’s a community group that’s out of the library. But I think if most groups, it would be $25. And, and I think if you, uh, at the time when we were looking at, uh, Friends were going all over to different groups. I think, uh, Clayton had built its library in the 80s. Um, then Danville, when Danville completed its library and I went over to its opening, we actually, um, I, I invited the mayor of Danville to come over and, uh, um, to lunch with some of our board members. And so that we could talk about how they built their library, what it cost. Apparently the average is 10 years. I think we’re now, uh, way past that. In fact, we began our Library, I don’t know if you’re aware of this, about the same time as Orinda began planning. In fact, we began a little bit ahead of their planning because we had already put in place our building fund at that time. And, uh, they’ve just been speedy, that’s all I can say. We’re slow.

MM: A long time?

MP: Yeah, it did.

MM: Um, so you don’t have any remembrance of the 1940s library, the little one that’s on this site?

MP: No. I was not born in the 1940s. I mean, I was in the middle, but it was different. No, no. But I did, I was involved in building the outside portion. Oh, we’ll talk about that a little bit. Cool. Oh, sure. Uh, I, I think it was in the late, I think I was President in ‘89, one of those years. I can’t remember exactly, but, uh, uh, we had undertaken, for $30,000, this bargain. Wow. Uh, one of the problems with the early Library was people, uh, the cars could drive right up to the sidewalk. Oh. There was no little walkway. Well, there was a walkway, but the cars were driving right up to it. It was scary. It was scary. And so, uh, the children were coming here after school and playing out front.

MM: All right.

MP: And so, um, uh, we had, um, uh, gotten some, well, what our observation, my observation was, that it was a hazard to the children. Not only that, but they had no place to study. And they really were not encouraged to, um, be rowdy in the library at that time. They were back being chased outside the lot. And so, um, uh, it, it was the, a natural solution to put banquettes out there for the children to study and to provide some sort of a separation for the children and cars. And that’s really what I think we accomplished really well.

MM: Yep.

MP: And we didn’t even have a handicap parking spot. So we have a handicapped parking spot. Right. And we put in that too. And a dumpster, a little waste, attractive, um, trash receptacle. And that was, I think that cost about $30,000. And Esther Marchant of Marchant Homes was a big contributor. But, of course, the Friends, as usual, are the major, were the major, uh, uh, suppliers of that. And, uh, it took about a year. We had to do it through the County, uh, using union, naturally, uh, uh, workers. And I remember getting another million dollars worth of personal insurance because the people building it left a giant hole right outside the front door. With children coming and going and parents coming and going. And why no one fell in it, I don’t know. But, but, um, that hole was there for months. And miraculously, nobody was hurt. But today, the Library works really well with those outdoor, um, children using it all the time. And I’m really delighted. Okay. We put in a phone booth outside too, so children could call home. It’s historical now, isn’t it, to say that.

MM: Yeah. Things have changed.

MP: Exactly.

MM: Were you on the board when they changed the name from the Library Association to others, or was that prior to your time?

MP: Yeah. Prior to my time. I’m not sure if that’s the one. I probably could look back in the minutes. I’m not sure when that was either.

MM: Were you involved in the study in 1996, the study about, like, was it, was that the Vision one or whatever?

MP: Uh, Vision 2000?

MM: Yes.

MP: I’ve been involved in all of them. I think every single one. Uh, and in fact, part of the, uh, drive that we had some failed, uh, Parcel Tax measures to increase the, uh, bonds. Two of those, I think. Uh, good times, uh, people expect the State to pay for it. I mean, the County to pay for it. This is a bit of philosophy here from my own experience. In good times, they expect the County to pay for it. And then in bad times, they don’t have enough to support it. So, I don’t know when you, when you go for a Parcel Tax increase because it’s, uh, one of those things where…

MM: One wants to pay, but they all want it.

MP: They all want it. Exactly.

MM: So, talk about what you know about the new Library. How involved have you been in the, I mean, you were in on the Vision and then you were on the Board early on when I was, when I was early. But I mean, what, what can you tell us about your involvement with this new Library?

MP: Well, we, uh, uh, it, it’s been so long in the making now. We’re looking at, um, I think 2010 will make it almost 20 years since we’ve been in the planning. So, I think the original board members, uh, I mean, there’s almost a dichotomy between what, what was envisioned back when we started. I think our biggest contribution, uh, and, and I can tell you why my, why one of the reason I wanted a building fund was, um, I think Joan Merryman had a slightly different take on it, but we were on this Board for years and we kept seeing the budget getting cut for books, the budget getting cut for staff. Um, the last crisis there were, uh, they were, we were down to having, uh, to stay open with volunteer staff if the unions would allow it. I mean, it was that critical and, or if the Library was going to be open only 12 hours a week, something like that. It was pretty dire. Meanwhile, we were pumping a lot of money into, I think, uh, $2,000 a year into the children’s collection and that was just to replace what was worn out. I mean, I’m delighted it’s worn out because I think that, that amount of usage deserves to be.

MM: But it wasn’t really used stuff. It didn’t, adding to the collection.

MP: It was not adding new books. It was just replacing worn out things. And so, um, uh, so much was happening. We had just, we had bought a carpet. We had bought the children’s chairs. We had put money into the, uh, stand for the, uh, back, uh, I think my last time I was called into the Library was to identify what we had bought because they couldn’t get rid of, they weren’t allowed to get rid of things the Friends had bought. We bought these shelves. We bought, uh, the adult chairs. We bought the junior section. Uh, we, the computers came from Long’s. We negotiated that grant. I brought in a grant from the Bank of the West, I think it was, from, uh, for, uh, Children’s Summer Program. But, but we put a lot of this. We even built the counter, the checkout counter. That, that stuff we bought. I think that part of the history’s disappeared, how much the Friends contributed to the material well-being, in addition to the book budget. And, um, uh, I think in the late 80s, um, uh, we wanted space out in the Community Center for that Book Room. And, uh, we, we were given it on a temporary basis. And then, then, uh, Council and Don Tatzin decreed that the, uh, uh, Community Center should pay for itself. So we were gonna be paying for it. And, so I went out and, I actually went to the City Manager at that time. It’s not Steve Falk. Bob Adams. And, uh, said, is there a way that, we’re, we’re donating. I said, we’re only working for the City now. All our money is going into the Library, which is a public facility. Is there a way that the City could donate our rent every year? I understand because there’s so many other worthwhile groups. There was the Seniors’ group was out there. The women’s, League of Women Voters and so on were out there. And so we didn’t want to ask for special treatment, but could the city give us a check for that rent? He said, we’ll promise, I’ll sign on the back and we’ll hand it right back to you. But it would at least allow the 47 workers out there to be working for the, uh, bringing books to the Library instead of working to pay rent to the City. And he liked the idea and he took it to City Council and, um, they liked the idea. And so we were able to, to, um, to get that room, uh, essentially rent free as a benefit because we were volunteers working for the City. Prior to that, they had wanted to, um, actually get rid of us altogether because they said we weren’t a good use of the space. And I remember going on with my dollars later. I remember speaking, waiting till midnight for my turn to speak to City Council. This was my first meeting I spoke at as President of the Friends. And I got up and said, uh, uh, they said, well, you know, exercise could earn $12,000 a year. The exercise, they used that room. And I said, we’re already making that. And better yet, all of our money goes back to the City, which benefits everybody. Well, at that point, it was a five-step decision in our favor. But up until that, they were talking about our sharing it with people, our doing. So it’s been a long series of, uh, negotiations. And that’s really my beginning in the political environment. Oh, I didn’t tell you, answer your question. So we started the Building Fund. Um, that was what was leading to that was as a, I suggested it to the Board as a carrot to ourselves. I said, you know, we’ve been struggling, struggling to maintain open hours. We were struggling in I think the late 80s to keep the Library open, additional hours on the basis of our donations, getting donations. And the first year people cooperated a lot and said, oh, here’s money, here’s money.. And the second year, we were, still had it. They were still pretty generous. But the third year they began saying, why don’t you fix this problem already? And of course we couldn’t. It was County financed. And, and so just to keep ourselves upbeat about the situation. I mean, books were declining in the book budget and less, we had fewer staff, fewer open hours. Uh, I said, let’s keep the dream alive and let’s put together, uh, put our, our leftover money, whatever we have in this building fund. And we already had some in there, a little bit in there. And there was, I think we had one President who wanted to use it on carpeting. But we fended that off. And, uh, and it grew and grew and grew. And by the time it got to, I think, a hundred thousand, it was pretty safe. It, it, we were trying to make it sacrosanct, that fund, so that people wouldn’t spend it. And, um, and then when it got to three hundred fifty thousand, I said, I really think it’s, I, I meant, asked Gwen if we could meet at her house and, um, uh, talk over the idea of proposing to the city that we build a new library. And that, trying to remember the year on that, whether it was ‘94, something like that. And they liked the idea. Um, it was Gwen, uh, Lois Laine, Joan Merryman, I think it was the four of us, and I was there. And, uh, I don’t think you would, you were not there, were you?

MM: That meeting? Um, I don’t think so. No.

MP: Okay.

MM: Oh, I don’t think, I’m trying to, I know, it’s fifteen years ago already.

MP: Yeah.

MM: I think I came, I don’t think I’ve been on the board maybe ten years. Only ten years.

MP: I know it sounds like a lot.

MM: I know.

MP: And I’m trying to remember too, but at that point I had Board permission. I went to the Board and they gave me the permission to go to Steve Falk and to take it to City Council. That was the procedure. And City, to get this show on the road. And then of course we opted to build the Veterans Hall first with redevelopment money.

MM: Right.

MP: Oh, and the, of course we had the Redevelopment, the Library, we wrote into the Redevelopment Agency so it would be above the cap. You all know what that means?

MM: No.

MP: I didn’t intend to ever be political. As I said, you start out as a Library person and you end up. The redevelopment money is whatever, when it started, I think it was 1996, might have been 95. It’s, the real estate taxes are frozen for the County and for the City at that level. And anything that comes in as, as the increases in occurring property tax over the years.

MM: Over and above.

MP: Over and above. Come back to the redevelopment agency to spend on whatever’s needed. Benefits from. So you benefit, you can.

MM: Property values.

MP: Increases going up. Right. And it, it’s for 25 years or 30 and I think they, maybe it was originally for 50 and I’m trying to think and it’s been extended to 30 now. But they, they added the Veterans Hall and I think the Library. I think the Library as above the cap. In other words, you were given a certain amount of time and a certain amount of money. And I believe it’s $70 million that they could spend. Up to $70 million.

MM: If you made that much.

MP: If you made that much. Yeah. Or 25 years. Or 15 years. Whichever came first and then they extended. Now it’s 30 years. So the cap is still, as I understand it, $70 million. We haven’t spent much of that money because the Library, even though we’ve spent. I think the Library is limited. In 2007 they, they, the City Council limited the Library building to $46 million. They said no more than that. But that all doesn’t count in the $70 million we’re allowed to spend. So it’s as if we got $116 or whatever it would be. Or whatever we choose to spend on the Veterans. And I think the Veterans ended up costing about $10 to $11 million. Even though it was supposed to be five originally. So it’s difficult for me. I haven’t calculated exactly. I intend to study the RDA.. I haven’t gone into that much.

MM: So we benefited by that huge increase in property values.

MP: That’s right. Everybody gets a share of it.

MM: So basically as property values went up.

MP: That’s right.

MM: Our level.

MP: Our level. We get that because we’re a blighted area. And it’s limited to the blighted area. Which I think is most of Mt. Diablo Blvd. And it includes the Library. And I think all the way to the Park Hotel. I’m not sure as quite. So they can improve it. And what you’re supposed to do with the money. I mean what you’re really after when you do a Redevelopment Agency. Is you want that money to be able to create business values. So that you actually get sales tax revenues from a more developed downtown. So you’re studying…….

MM: So you’re still using that money to benefit yourself down the road.

MP: Exactly. And one of the risks that I was concerned about. And I guess this may be subtle. Is that when you create buildings that you need to subsidize to such an extent. Like the Library. Because we built so large a building. Your maintenance and operating costs are substantial. They can be a million to two million a year. Doubling in 14 years. And that’s what Steve said. They double in 14 years. And so those can be. Those become then not revenue generating as you intend an RDA to do. But if it will actually cost us money.

MM: Well I understand that the second phase is Open Doors, Open Minds. Is the money that they are raising. They’re up to almost 2.5 million now. But then that money will. The interest from that money will provide for the operation. And the people who are tenants in that building will be paying rent, for their portion of that.

MP: Right. The problem is maintenance is $10 a square foot for Class A building. So since we have 35,000 square feet it’s about $350,000 a year. That’s just to maintain it.

MM: I’m not sure. I’m not sure, and I know we didn’t intend, but it’s, yes, self-supporting. Self-supporting, and when we,

MP: The City was not sure when that was going to occur. We did study this at the Lafayette Homeowners Council, a businessman whose, this is his profession, took on, and his calculation was $1.1 million, but it really, you know, if you don’t do programs, then, of course, your costs go down, but we’re going to have security. We’ll need security for the Steinway and the other things, and there’ll be parking. You’ll need extra parking, and if it becomes a regional center, really popular, we’ll need extra library staff to handle the increase, and the City, I didn’t feel the City had really, well, they said they admitted as much. They really had not looked at the cost associated with maintenance and operations. They had said, our job is to build it, and the donors had said they would run it, and actually their job, my understanding is that when the new building comes in, the City will own it, and is responsible for maintaining it, and I think that’s why we’re all paid rent, and that’s why the, but I think also that’s why they channel the interest money from the RDA through to the Foundation, because I think that interest money, even though, um, the Financial Committee wanted those loans ended, they missed the point. It’s, it’s to provide the money channel to redevelop the money, uh, legally into a format that will allow us to allow the city to cover the cost of maintenance. This is probably not at all what you meant.

MM: No, no, it’s interesting. It’s good. Yeah. Um, so what outcome do you hope for most with the new library? What do you look forward to this library being?

MP: I mean, personally, or for the community?

MM: Well, personally, and for the community.

MP: It’s kind of two different points of view. Personally, I like new material, so if they bring in a lot of new books and new collections, um, uh, I’ll be excited, and, and I really am so pleased that we finally, as the Friends group donated, uh, took me another $250,000 for books. I just was at the City Council, meeting last Monday night, uh, voted another $250,000 for the architect, and that figure just, it’s like a little, uh, pet or, uh, a gnawing in my, that, um, that’s the only amount, that is the exact amount that the City is putting into the library in terms of materials. And when I feel it should be so much more, at least an endowment fund for that should be created, or something should be, um, because that’s the whole point, one of the purposes. I know they will, and that’s why I continue to support them. I, I love the Friends, too. Great job.

MM: It was said that the internet would kill the printed word. Libraries would become obsolete. I remember Walt Lautenberg saying.

MP: I do, too. Yes, yes.

MM: How are we going to avoid that?

MP: I have to share one more experience. I remember the Taxpayers Association taking, asking me out for coffee so they could discuss this with me, as representing, representing the Friends, and they took me to McDonald’s for Senior coffee. I thought it was so dear, and so excellent, and so and then they said, and I actually called them one. They said, hey, we’re the Taxpayers Association. Just support your local group. Um, I, it’s interesting you say that. Uh, I think the focus has changed. I think people will use it differently from what we intended initially, initially from our childhood, and actually from the 90s when we, when we talked it over when the Danville Library was built, when the Clayton Library was built, uh, when Orinda’s Library was built. Um, I’ve looked at, uh, how children and the young, young people are texting, using their iPhones for everything, and, uh, collecting information instantly on this or that. You can go on the internet and find out what disease you have. I mean, it’s, and pictures and all, that I, I do think we’ll need to give that some thought when it opens. I do think ,fortunately, 80 percent of our community is, uh, I think older, and that will keep, will keep being book lovers. And then there’s the new readers that have to be trained, and so the young children will still be there. What happens to the middle group? Um, we may need to repurpose the teen room, for all I know, into a Senior, uh, area, because I really feel, this is just something, I haven’t talked to the City about. Share the use. Because they’re going to be using it at different times. At different times, exactly.

MM: One room, I mean, the Homework Center could be used in the daytime with the seniors, or whatever.

MP: Ideally, I would like to see us maximize use, because we have spent a great deal on it, and I really want us to get as much use as we can out of that, that building.

MM: In there, yes, yes.

MP: Is there a room that will hold 26 or 28, or you mean in the Book Room?

MM: No, no, no, no, upstairs in the, in the Homework Center.

MP: That would be a great use of that. We’ve always been here. Oh, I know. And as we expanded our board, we used to be 18, and kind of, we could fit in the corner. Now that you’re 26, you have, I know. So that’s good. But I, I do think, and it, it may be unpopular of me to say that, but I, I do see, in fact, I brought something on the Kindle to show you.

MM: Cool.

MP: Amazon’s Kindle, again, this was in the Wall Street Journal. I wasn’t sure if it was the Times, but. Oh, law books. Law books on the Kindle. And, and each one, each time they put new things on, at, originally, I, I didn’t see that I would ever want to read a book off the computer. In fact, I still don’t want to read a book on a computer. Um, I’m not sure about Kindle, yes. Or be at the beach with your children around you.

MM: Yes, granted. Sand in your computer. But I think it, uh, with the new travelers on BART, or on, uh, airports, apparently you can pull up, take that with you. It’s a small device, and, and I can see that, uh, begin to see the utility of it myself. So whether we repurpose some of the library to this or that, uh, I don’t know. Well, hopefully it’s going to change with the times.

MM: I think so. That’s, yes. Like how they need different things.

MP: Yes. I’m, it was really sad, saddened last, uh, Tuesday to, uh, hear that San Jose was going to, uh, board up its new libraries, its new community libraries, both of them. That’s the great big ones that they built now. The two big ones that they’re building are both going to be boarded up and closed, uh, when they’re completed.

MM: What?

MP: Uh, community, they can’t, they cannot afford to maintain and staff them and, um, operate them.

MM: What do they do for now and then hope that things will change?

MP: Uh, I think they’re hoping now they can afford to finish them. You do know the State suspended the Library Grants.

MM: And so, we were so lucky though.

MP: We only lost, uh, uh, $1.2 million, uh, the last 10 percent because they pay you in stages. This is according to Don Tatzin. Is it more? Less than that. No, he’s, he, uh, two nights, two days, I guess it was Friday of last week he said $1.2 million or, or maybe it was Sunday, uh, it was an email.

MM: Is it payable later when the payable or not?

MP: Um, the rule, what the instructions came down, I think in late 2008, I think they said to anybody contemplating building, don’t. If you are in construction, check your financing. And, uh, what happened to us is they pay in stages, stages of completion. So since we’re nearing the end, we’ve lost only, uh, the last bit. And it’s still, uh, due and payable, I think, to us. It’s still owed to us from the State. It’s just given the State’s situation. And, and actually I’ve learned in, one of the things I would advise anybody, um, following as, as, as a County Commissioner of Libraries or as a President of the Friends would be to just keep your eye on State, the State funding and the County funding and try to plan.

MM: Five or six years ago, number one, I don’t think anybody saw this coming.

MP: I did, yeah.

MM: I mean, did you see the economic downturn?

MP: Oh, I saw the economic downturn absolutely coming. Absolutely. And talked about it and, and was very worried about the size of the Library we were building because I, I wanted us to be sure we didn’t have to close, even close part of it.

MM: Well, luckily we started when we did. So that we could start a little sooner. Right, right. And we might not have gotten the State Bond.

MP: Of course not. No, I worked very hard for that. In fact, when, uh, the City was spending six million on the Veterans, of Redevelopment Money on the Veterans, I asked Don to call a meeting and he did. It didn’t make me popular with the Veterans. I think they were threatening to shoot. Art, uh, so that, so about shoot. I said, you’re shooting the messenger here, Art. I’m not against sort of an army brat myself. I’ve been, you know, military. All four of you have this new building. But I said, what I wanted to guarantee is that we, uh, still have time to apply for the grant money, get our Library going, so we still have time for the grant money, and that we, um, get at least the same amount you’re getting. Because at the time, we didn’t realize it was going to, we were going to get $46 million. Right. And we thought, I just wanted us to be able to, uh, get, we were planning on a $10 million dollar library at the time, and I wanted our six that they were getting. So, um, yes, yes, I do have been concerned about the political situation. And as I said, um, uh, it’s ongoing, and I, I did speak, I won’t say this on the tape particularly, but just that I did try to check that our source of funding for our staff, the staff that had been promised the numbers. So it’s close, it’s not, but I understand more cuts will be coming. So I, I think this is an ongoing concern. And yes, I was aware of it.

MM: We have a new Senior Librarian, Senior Clerk there, or whatever, because they’ve moved here over from Pleasant Hill. I mean, I think some of the, depending on your circulation and depending on that, some staff is being played, hours are being cut, but they’re moving them to other places.

MP: To other places?

MM: Yes, yes. Because we’ll probably have the most circulation in the County once they open. Once we open.

MP: It usually happens at the new Library. You’ve got new materials.

MM: People come from all over to see it.

MP: So, and Walnut, if Walnut Creek, but Walnut Creek is huge tax base, so they might be able to, no, no, but I’m thinking that they could probably handle that. San Jose, I think got hit with its property tax. You know, when, when homes are down, you get less property tax revenues and if businesses, car sales aren’t occurring as much too, you lose huge.

MM: We don’t have a commercial tax base per se.

MP: And we lost our car dealership recently. That’s, I think, where we’re building our, our senior center. So, uh, that, that’s part of what a Redevelopment Agency has to look at is, uh, and why I’m now looking at the, uh, downtown, uh, strategic plan because, uh, parking is critical and they don’t include, they don’t have much added there and there.

MM: There’s not much place to park.

MP: Not much place to park now, but if you put more people downtown, you’ve got to have them somewhere.

MM: Any final thoughts, anything like that, anything you’d like to say?

MP: …much, um, excitement, and pleasure. I derive personally out of books. And, uh, I would never be able to cull anything. I’ve tried pulling my own collection and I can’t you know for donations to the Friends. I just keep getting myself engrossed and reading them all over again when I try to see so I really want to part with this and of course I obviously am a collector. I don’t but eventually you’ll get my books. Oh I know and I heard you gave a first edition accidentally of something to uh I think it was you I’ve forgotten what it was. I’ll think of it in a minute. I’ll come back with the title of it it’s just my brain is… Yes. I think when I mention it, I’ll remember in a minute but anyway um it’s just that there’s such… it’s the knowledge in books. It’s the fact that you can track someone’s mind from a thousand year or not a thousand anyway but uh well sometimes yes if it’s really old medieval texts from that period but uh just hundreds of years to time travel with books and to learn so many different points of view, so many uh topics from astronomy, to uh gemology, to financial, to travel to anything just anything and there’s so much so much out there almost more than you can possibly read in a lifetime and now we cover so many different media we’ve got uh as you said tapes, CDs, and computers, DVDs, magazines just so much, so much, that I’m waiting with.

MM: I’m really interested to see how it plays out the new… uh I see so much change in the way the teenagers access information. At this point that I’ll be interested to see when how future generations use the Library and it may not be the way we use it. Yeah that’s probably a guarantee. So but hopefully it will supplement all the other things that they have maybe the internet will make them excited about something and then bring them back.

MP: One of the good things is we have the structure now we have the big building there and uh we can see how we how we want to use it. You know we may find that our needs are not what we thought they were and then we’ll just be able to repurpose things to morph into whatever exactly but I don’t think the love of books is going to end but I’m…. as I get older…. I’m now, I’m more and more sure that or more and more sure that I should be less and less sure that that uh we’ll still see books I think after oh these hundreds and hundreds of years that we’ve had books now since the printing development of printing press. It’s uh tough to see the things uh turning away from that I guess I can’t picture it. I hope it’ll stay but I but I suppose if it is supplanted someday there will be uh something else there in its place to serve that.

MM: One of the social studies lessons I teach for LASF is about Benjamin Franklin and the printing press and now we’re to a point where his brother had the New England Courant and he had the Philadelphia Inquirer. I think now newspapers are teetering on the brink of extinction.

MP: I find that scary and it is …..I don’t know if it’s just generational whether it was such a bastion yes and

MM: I think it’s the whole internet advertising, Craigslist, all that stuff that they don’t really want to answer. They want which is what really supported them of course and so praying that my Dad will, the newspaper won’t go under until my Dad dies because that is his whole day of reading The Chronicle from front to back everything oh yes I don’t know. What I do I mean I have to get in the time which is like takes you 10 minutes to read but it’s just so incredible that you could think that these newspapers which we all grew up with would be yes now and maybe going and

MP: I come at it from a perennial the educational point of view and worry about getting alternate viewpoints. It’s one thing to go and just seek out the areas where you feel comfortable and you’re thinking you get your news you’re getting one snap or if you’re reading only this newspaper you get another and uh how you bring and it used to be that we got a different multiple points of view in any newspaper and I think not more more and more now we’re seeing newspapers laying off staff and they’re focusing on their core group perhaps rather than uh I know but I keep thinking is it just change is it just the changes we’re seeing with age and that that maybe our forefathers felt just as afraid. I mean when you think uh when you and I were in school, we had to do our computing overnight at the computer lab, I mean we had to go in and use batch cards, you had those little file cards, oh, typewriter, I used that for years that’s right. I remember doing an all-nighter and it was, oh gosh, it was an honors history class and I had it, had one paper due and I was an all-nighter and I was typing, I typed an entire, I think it was 2:00 AM I was, I typed an entire page, I finished typing, and pulled it out and I typed in all the wrong keys, the whole page and I was one set over on, but uh, it’s so much easier now when you do it on the computer, unless you hit the erase button accidentally but save, edit, right, anything and you can even now print your own books all right I know so we’re at the ultimate cycle. Well thank you Mary for including me.